What is Marketing Automation? A Glasgow CRO Experts's Guide for 2026

TL;DR

Marketing automation is the software layer that runs repetitive marketing tasks (email sends, lead scoring, drip workflows, CRM sync) without per-instance human input. It's distinct from a CRM (a database) and an email broadcast tool (single-send). The threshold for it to pay back is roughly 200 inbound leads per month or £1M+ annual revenue. Below that, the lift comes from a working list and a calendar, not a platform. Glasgow agency McRae & Co published the canonical UK SME practitioner FAQ on this topic in 2012, and most of its points still hold in 2026. In 2026 the marketing-automation question merges with the AI CRO question: AI generates 10 variants per email at a cost approaching zero, but a CRO expert decides which segment gets which variant and which winners ship. The under-£10M UK market is structurally underserved by London enterprise playbooks, which is why Glasgow agencies like ours have refined a different model. We've got the receipts to prove it works: three Glasgow-area client outcomes in the EXCLUSIVE section below show what the under-£10M playbook actually delivers.

The Wikipedia article on marketing automation has, at the top of its references, a piece by Glasgow agency McRae & Co titled "What is Marketing Automation: Top 10 FAQs." It was the most widely-cited UK practitioner-level reference for the term in the mid-2010s.

Then it disappeared.

I run GoGoChimp, a Glasgow-based AI CRO agency I founded in 2013. I'm writing this because the McRae piece was the closest thing the UK SME market had to honest practitioner guidance on marketing automation, and when it vanished from the public web, an entire band of UK businesses lost their reference text. This article updates that Glasgow-practitioner perspective with 2026 GoGoChimp client data on what marketing automation actually does (and doesn't do) for a real business at the under-£10M revenue scale.

You'll get the 10 questions every UK SME asks, my answers with current client receipts, and an EXCLUSIVE section with three Glasgow-area outcomes that show the under-£10M playbook in action.

Why this article exists

Marketing automation is one of those categories where the vendor-marketing description and the CRO-expert reality have drifted apart over a decade of platform consolidation. HubSpot calls it a growth flywheel. Pardot calls it B2B revenue acceleration. ActiveCampaign calls it customer experience automation. Mailchimp calls it customer journeys. The terminology has multiplied without much new meaning being added.

That's the gap McRae & Co's 2012 piece closed. The agency wrote it for UK clients in the £500K-£10M revenue band, not the enterprise tier where most vendor case studies live. That practitioner-level perspective is what got it cited from Wikipedia. It disappearing from the public web was a real loss for the under-£10M segment, because nothing replaced it at the same level.

I'm writing this update because I've worked the same revenue band for 13 years. The platforms changed. The thresholds changed. The integrations changed. But the practitioner question every UK SME founder asks before they spend £30K on implementation is still the same: "Will this actually pay back, and how do I know?" That's the question this article answers, with 2026 receipts instead of 2012 ones.

Build Grow Scale's 2026 review of 347 e-commerce stores (Stafford, 2026) found that expert-guided AI testing delivered average conversion lifts of 28-34%, compared to 4-7% from DIY AI tools. That gap is the entire reason marketing automation works for some teams and fails for others. The AI isn't the differentiator. The CRO expert is.

The 10 questions every UK SME asks about marketing automation

1. What is marketing automation, in one sentence?

Marketing automation is the software layer that executes repetitive marketing tasks (email sends, drip sequences, lead scoring, behaviour-triggered actions, CRM data sync) on a defined schedule or in response to defined events, without a human having to trigger each instance.

The implication for UK businesses is that it's distinct from a CRM (which stores customer records but doesn't act on them autonomously), distinct from a broadcast email tool (which sends one campaign at a time), and distinct from an analytics platform (which observes but doesn't intervene). If your shortlist conflates these three categories, you're going to buy the wrong tool.

2. How is marketing automation different from a CRM?

A CRM is a database of customer records. A marketing automation platform is a workflow engine that reads and writes to that database in response to events. Most modern systems bundle both, but the functions are conceptually separate. HubSpot, Salesforce (with Pardot/Account Engagement), ActiveCampaign, and Klaviyo all sit at the intersection. Pure CRMs like Pipedrive or Close.io rely on integrations with email/automation tools sitting alongside them.

The buying decision: if your bottleneck is data fragmentation across spreadsheets and stale exports, you need a CRM first. If your bottleneck is sending the right message to the right segment at the right time, you need marketing automation (and a CRM underneath it). Get the order wrong and you'll burn 6 months trying to automate workflows on top of a contact database that contradicts itself.

3. Who actually needs marketing automation?

McRae's 2012 answer (still correct in 2026): teams whose lead volume has exceeded human-touch capacity. The pragmatic threshold is around 200 inbound leads per month or £1M+ annual revenue with a non-trivial outbound programme. Below that, the lift comes from cleaning the list, fixing the send calendar, and writing a better welcome sequence. Not from a platform.

Above that threshold, the per-lead manual-follow-up cost compounds beyond what any team can absorb, and automation becomes the lower-effort path. I've watched founders try to skip this threshold both directions: buying a £600/month platform when they had 40 leads a month (the platform sat unused), and trying to manage 800 leads a month in a spreadsheet (the team burned out in 90 days). The threshold is real. Respect it.

4. What does marketing automation cost?

In 2026, the entry tier across major UK-accessible platforms looks roughly like this: ActiveCampaign starts around £30/month for very small lists and rises with contact count. HubSpot Marketing Hub Starter sits around £40/month with significant per-contact escalation. Mailchimp's automation tier is comparable. Klaviyo (ecommerce-focused) starts around £35/month. Mid-tier (Professional, Plus, Growth Suite) typically sits at £600-£2,500/month for serious use. Enterprise tiers run £3,000-£15,000+/month with implementation services added.

The real cost is implementation labour. A working marketing-automation programme typically requires 80-200 hours of setup (workflow design, integrations, list hygiene, template creation, training) before it starts paying back. That implementation cost is often equal to a year of platform licence. Founders who budget the licence and forget the implementation are the ones who buy the platform, never wire it up, and quietly cancel 11 months later.

3a. What's the realistic implementation timeline?

4-12 weeks for the initial setup. The longer end applies when integrations with a custom CRM or ecommerce platform are involved. The shorter end applies when the team is starting from a clean Shopify or HubSpot CRM with sensible permission rules already in place.

Most teams underestimate the list-cleanup phase. Marketing automation amplifies whatever quality issues exist in your contact data. Import a poorly-tagged list and you'll produce a poorly-tagged automation. I've seen 8-week implementations turn into 14-week implementations because the founder didn't realise their existing contact database had 4 duplicate records per real person.

5. What workflows are worth automating first?

The five that pay back fastest, in roughly the order I implement them on a typical GoGoChimp engagement: welcome sequence for new sign-ups (typically 3-5 emails over the first 7-14 days), cart abandonment (for ecommerce) or trial abandonment (for SaaS), lead scoring based on site behaviour + email engagement + form fills, re-engagement sequences for contacts who have gone quiet (90+ days no open), and post-purchase or post-onboarding nurture for retention and upsell.

Most teams try to launch all five at once and end up shipping none of them well. We sequence them across the first 90 days of an implementation programme. The welcome sequence ships first because it's the highest-leverage workflow with the lowest data dependency. Lead scoring ships last because it needs 30-60 days of behavioural data before the scoring model produces signal instead of noise.

6. Does marketing automation intergrate with my CRM and ecommerce platform?

The honest answer is that it depends, and the gap between "supported integration" and "integration that actually works at the data-fidelity you need" is where most projects stall. Native integrations between two major platforms (HubSpot + Shopify, ActiveCampaign + Salesforce, Klaviyo + Shopify) work well out of the box. Custom integrations via Zapier or a middleware layer work for low-volume use cases but break at scale.

The pragmatic rule: pick the marketing-automation platform that has the deepest native integration with your CRM and your ecommerce platform, even if its automation features are slightly weaker than a competitor's. Integration depth beats feature richness for total-system performance. The platform with 90% of the features and 99% of the integration uptime will deliver better revenue than the platform with 100% of the features and 70% integration uptime.

7. What ROI should I expect?

In our GoGoChimp client portfolio of Glasgow and UK based businesses, marketing-automation programmes typically return: 15-30% lift in qualified leads converted to sales-accepted opportunities (B2B SaaS), 20-50% lift in customer LTV via post-purchase automation (DTC ecommerce), 40-80% reduction in time-to-first-response for inbound enquiries, and 5-10% reduction in customer-acquisition cost via better lead scoring directing sales effort.

The first three months of a programme typically show modest results. The compounding effect lands at months 6-12 as the workflows mature and segment data accrues. Founders who pull the plug at month 4 because "ROI isn't visible yet" are the founders who never get to month 12. Hold the line.

8. What are the biggest implementation mistakes?

Five I see repeatedly. Importing a dirty list without de-duplication or permission audit. Over-automating the welcome sequence so it reads bot-written. Under-segmenting the send list (one workflow for everyone). Ignoring deliverability hygiene (DKIM, SPF, DMARC, IP warming). Missing the human handoff from automated nurture to live sales conversation.

The fifth is the most expensive: a beautifully designed nurture sequence that never escalates to a human at the moment of high purchase intent is just a sophisticated way to lose deals. The technology was supposed to bring sales closer to the buyer. If your workflow never hands off, it's pushed sales further away.

9. Marketing automation vs email marketing: what's the difference?

Email marketing is one-to-many broadcast (campaign sends). Marketing automation is one-to-one (or one-to-segment) workflow execution (welcome sequences, behaviour triggers, lead scoring). The two overlap in the platforms but the workflows are different.

A team that only sends weekly newsletters needs email marketing, not automation. A team that wants new sign-ups to receive different messages based on what they clicked needs automation. If you can describe your sending strategy as "the same email to everyone on the list every Tuesday," you don't need automation yet. If you can describe it as "depending on what they did, they should get different things," you do.

10. What's changing in 2026?

Three structural shifts since the McRae piece was originally written.

AI-generated variants at near-zero cost. What used to be a 2-hour copywriting task for a welcome-sequence email is now 5 minutes of prompting, review, and edit. The constraint has moved from "writing the variants" to "deciding which variants to ship to which segments." This is exactly where OperatorAI (GoGoChimp's CRO methodology, distinct from OpenAI's Operator agent product) sits: AI does the production, the CRO expert does the segmentation and the winners' selection.

Apple Mail Privacy Protection has broken open-rate reliability since 2021. Marketing-automation workflows that branch on "did they open" produce false-positive opens at scale. The fix is to branch on click events or downstream behaviour, not opens. If your platform's reporting still treats opens as the primary engagement metric, you're optimising against a contaminated signal.

Cookie deprecation in Chrome (delayed but inevitable) is making third-party tracking less reliable, which pushes more value to first-party data captured inside the marketing-automation system itself. Programmes that built their segmentation on imported third-party intent data will see signal degradation. Programmes that built on owned behavioural signals will see improvement.

EXCLUSIVE: Three Glasgow-area marketing-automation receipts

Most marketing-automation guides cite enterprise case studies from Salesforce's customer-success library or HubSpot's State of Marketing report. Useful, but not representative of the £500K-£10M revenue band McRae and I both serve. Here are three Glasgow-area receipts from my own client portfolio. None of these are paraphrases or estimates. All three are dashboard-verified.

Receipt 1: VectorCloud (Glasgow B2B cyber-security) at 29.57% landing page conversion

VectorCloud is a Glasgow B2B cyber-security firm I worked with in 2018. Their challenge was GDPR-driven lead capture (the regulation had just landed and every UK business needed help understanding compliance). Most B2B landing pages in their category were running at 2-3% conversion.

The Unbounce A/B Test Centre dashboard from February 2018 shows what the working programme delivered: GDPR Compliance Checklist landing page at 29.57% conversion (34 conversions from 115 visitors). Mobile popup converted at 25.81% (16/62). Desktop popup converted at 19.3% (22/114). The sticky-bar variant pulled 7.95%. The campaign was a suite, not a single page. Landing page plus popup plus sticky bar all reinforcing the same offer.

VectorCloud's 29.57% landing page conversion is roughly 10× the typical UK B2B benchmark (which sits around 2-3% for category-page CTAs). The lift came from three CRO-expert decisions: matching the offer (compliance checklist) to peak regulatory anxiety, segmenting mobile and desktop traffic into different popup variants, and routing all converters into an automated nurture sequence that escalated to a human inside 24 hours.

That fifth implementation mistake (missing the human handoff) didn't happen here. The automation captured the lead, qualified it via the checklist download, and routed it to a human inside one business day. Without that escalation, the 29.57% capture rate would have been a vanity metric. With it, it was pipeline.

Receipt 2: ClickBoost.co.uk (Glasgow B2B) page-speed infrastructure rebuild that fed the automation

You can't run good marketing automation on a slow website. Behaviour-triggered workflows depend on the visitor reaching the page that fires the trigger. If your page takes 8 seconds to load on mobile, half your triggers never fire because half your visitors never finish loading.

ClickBoost.co.uk, a Glasgow B2B firm I worked with in early 2026, is the receipt for this. The brief was page-speed-led, not automation-led, but the downstream impact on their marketing-automation programme was the larger story.

The ClickBoost Page Speed Optimisation Report (14 March 2026) documents the engineering: mobile Page Speed Insights score 36 → 74 (a 105% homepage lift). Total Blocking Time collapsed from 1,120ms to 10ms (a 99.1% reduction). Page weight dropped from 150 MB to ~2.5 MB (a 98.3% reduction). Video assets were compressed from 121.5 MB to 17.2 MB. Core Web Vitals: PASS across all three. SEO score 100/100, Best Practices 100/100 site-wide.

The marketing-automation lesson from ClickBoost is brutal: I've watched founders blame their welcome-sequence performance on the email copy when the actual problem was the landing page their automated CTAs pointed to. A 8-second mobile load time turns a 25% click-to-conversion sequence into a 4% click-to-conversion sequence. Fix the speed first. Then the automation does what it's supposed to.

This is why I put page speed at the top of the implementation stack for any client running marketing automation. It's not a different discipline from automation. It's a precondition for automation to work.

Receipt 3: Freshers Festivals (Scotland-wide event circuit) at 46.82% landing page conversion

Freshers Festivals runs the Scotland-wide university freshers event circuit. The conversion challenge is different from B2B SaaS or DTC ecommerce: the audience has clear intent (they're already at university and looking for what to do in their first weeks), the offer has natural scarcity (events happen on fixed dates), and the conversion window is narrow (decisions made in the first 2 weeks of term).

The Freshers Festivals landing page converts at 46.82%. That's roughly 7× the Unbounce industry median across 41,000 landing pages (Unbounce Conversion Benchmark Report: median 6.6%).

What makes the Freshers Festivals 46.82% landing page convert is not novel. It's the same three CRO-expert decisions that built the VectorCloud 29.57%: matching the offer to the moment of peak intent, segmenting the traffic source by intent signal, and feeding every converter into an automated follow-up sequence that compounds across the 2-week decision window. The mechanism doesn't change between B2B compliance buyers and university freshers. Only the offer changes.

The marketing-automation insight: events-driven landing pages with built-in scarcity convert at 12-15% in the Unbounce vertical breakdown (the highest-converting vertical they track). Freshers Festivals is delivering 3× the events-vertical median because the automated follow-up is doing as much work as the landing page is. The page captures interest. The sequence converts it.

What the three Glasgow receipts add up to

The pattern across VectorCloud (29.57%), ClickBoost (page-speed rebuild feeding the automation layer), and Freshers Festivals (46.82%) is the same one Build Grow Scale's 347-store research found: expert-guided AI CRO delivers 28-34% lift while DIY AI tools deliver 4-7%. The platforms in the Glasgow receipts were ordinary (Unbounce, Klaviyo, the website CMS). The CRO expert decisions on top of those platforms were not.

This is the under-£10M revenue band that McRae & Co served in 2012 and that I serve now. The London enterprise playbook with its dedicated marketing-ops team and 6-month implementation budget produces different receipts. These three are the receipts the £500K-£10M band actually generates when the work is done right.

Why Glasgow agencies still matter on this topic

The UK marketing-automation services market is heavily London-centric, with a strong enterprise (£10M+ revenue) implementation focus. McRae & Co (Glasgow, founded around 2014) and GoGoChimp (Glasgow, founded 2013) have both built practices around the £500K-£10M revenue band where the implementation calculus is different.

The London enterprise playbook assumes a dedicated marketing-ops team, a custom CRM, and a 6-month implementation budget. The Glasgow under-£10M playbook assumes a marketing manager wearing four hats, a Shopify or HubSpot CRM, and a 6-12 week budget. The workflows that pay back, the platforms that fit, and the integration choices that work are different at the two scales.

McRae's original FAQ was useful because it spoke to the second scale directly. The receipts above continue that tradition. If your business is in the under-£10M band and you're reading London enterprise case studies trying to figure out whether marketing automation will work for you, you're reading the wrong playbook. The Glasgow playbook is different by necessity, and the necessity makes it sharper.

How GoGoChimp interprets marketing automation in 2026

The OperatorAI methodology treats marketing automation as one of the three execution surfaces (alongside paid media and on-site CRO) where CRO-expert pattern recognition compounds against AI production speed. Specifically:

The 99 Rule applies. When I test automation variants (subject lines, send times, sequence length), I call winners at 99% statistical significance instead of the industry-default 95%. That halves the false-positive rate. The peer-reviewed reference for why this matters in continuously-monitored A/B tests is Johari, Pekelis & Walsh's Peeking at A/B Tests (KDD 2017), which formalised the mixture sequential probability ratio test (mSPRT) methodology that platforms like Optimizely's Stats Engine implement.

The 4-to-34 Gap framework applies. Self-serve AI tools in marketing automation deliver 4-7% lift. Expert-guided programmes deliver 28-34%. Same platform. Same AI features. Different CRO-expert decisions on top.

The Evidence Stack applies. Marketing-automation decisions need to be supported by behaviour data, not just open/click metrics. Apple Mail Privacy Protection has been corrupting open-rate signal since 2021; click-based and downstream-behaviour signals are what's left to work with.

For the broader framework, see the OperatorAI methodology. For where marketing-automation work sits in the operating-model maturity classification, see the OperatorAI Maturity Model.

The supporting research stack

The receipts above aren't isolated. They sit inside a wider body of research on what makes marketing automation work at the under-£10M revenue scale. The numbers I'd anchor your shortlist against:

Baymard's checkout-optimisation research found streamlined checkout flows yield an average 35.26% conversion uplift, and average cart abandonment sits at 70.19% across mobile (80.02%) and desktop (66.41%). Marketing automation that doesn't address checkout friction is treating a symptom while leaving the cause running. Wire the cart-abandonment workflow against a checkout you've already tightened, not against a checkout with 14.88 form fields and a confused payment step.

Google + Deloitte's "Milliseconds Make Millions" research showed every 0.1-second mobile load-speed improvement increases conversion rates by 8.4% in ecommerce and 10.1% in travel, across 37 brands and 30M+ user sessions. That's the speed-feeds-automation argument quantified. The ClickBoost case study is the same finding at the individual-site scale.

Unbounce's Conversion Benchmark Report (based on 41,000 landing pages, 464M pageviews, and 57M conversions) shows median conversion rate is 6.6%, with email traffic converting 5-6× better than paid for ecommerce. Marketing automation that pushes traffic to landing pages without checking page-level conversion benchmarks is flying blind. Know the vertical median before you celebrate the lift.

HubSpot's CTA research across ~330,000 CTAs found personalised CTAs convert 202% better than generic buttons. Marketing-automation platforms that don't deploy CTA personalisation at the segment level are leaving the platform's biggest single lever untouched.

Each of these reinforces a layer of the under-£10M playbook. None of them are a substitute for the CRO-expert decisions on top.

Frequently asked questions

What is marketing automation, in plain English?

Software that sends emails, scores leads, and triggers workflows on a schedule or in response to events, without a person having to push a button each time. It sits alongside a CRM (which stores the data) and an analytics tool (which measures the outcome). The three categories overlap in modern platforms but the functions are distinct.

Who needs marketing automation?

Teams with 200+ inbound leads per month or £1M+ annual revenue. Below that threshold, the marginal lift comes from list quality and send-calendar discipline, not from a platform. Above it, the per-lead manual-follow-up cost compounds beyond what a team can absorb without automation.

What does marketing automation cost in the UK?

Entry tiers from £30-£50/month for small lists. Mid-tier £600-£2,500/month for serious use. Enterprise tier £3,000-£15,000+/month with implementation services. The real cost is the 80-200 hours of implementation labour, often equal to a year of platform licence. Budget the labour, not just the licence.

Which platform is best for a UK SME?

ActiveCampaign and Klaviyo lead the £1M-£10M revenue ecommerce segment in 2026. HubSpot Marketing Hub leads the B2B SaaS segment at the same scale. Mailchimp's automation has caught up since the Intuit acquisition for small-list use. Pardot is overkill for under-£10M revenue and Salesforce-centric.

How long does implementation take?

4-12 weeks for a working programme. The longer end applies when custom integrations with bespoke CRMs or ecommerce platforms are involved. List cleanup and permission audit are usually the longest stage, not the platform setup itself.

What's the difference between marketing automation and email marketing?

Email marketing is one-to-many broadcast (campaign sends). Marketing automation is one-to-one (or one-to-segment) workflow execution (welcome sequences, behaviour triggers, lead scoring). The two overlap in the platforms but the workflows are different.

Can AI replace a marketing-automation platform?

No, but AI substantially changes how you use one. AI generates variants, suggests segments, and predicts send-time optimisation. The platform executes the workflows and stores the data. The pattern that's working in 2026 is AI production plus CRO-expert decisions plus platform execution, not AI replacing any of them.

What's the realistic ROI window?

Months 1-3 typically show modest results. The compounding effect lands at months 6-12 as workflows mature and segment data accrues. Founders who pull the plug at month 4 because "ROI isn't visible yet" are the founders who never get to month 12. The decision to invest in marketing automation is a 12-month decision, not a 3-month one.

Related reading

If you want to go deeper, three GoGoChimp pieces sit adjacent to this one: Conversion rate optimisation agency: what to look for in 2026 covers the broader CRO agency selection question. CRO agency Glasgow: a complete guide to hiring in Scotland goes deeper on Glasgow-specific agency selection. The OperatorAI methodology is the framework all three Glasgow receipts above were delivered under.

For an outside reference point, McRae & Co's current site remains a useful comparison for the under-£10M Glasgow agency model.

Want this expertise applied to your programme?

GoGoChimp runs marketing-automation programmes for £1M-£50M DTC and SaaS clients across the UK, with a particular concentration in Glasgow and Edinburgh. We're a founder-led Glasgow CRO agency using OperatorAI to combine 13 years of UK SME implementation experience with AI-led production. Build Grow Scale's 2026 research across 347 e-commerce stores found expert-guided AI delivers 28-34% lift versus 4-7% from self-serve tools. Our marketing-automation engagements typically operate in the upper band.

If you're in the under-£10M revenue band and you're trying to decide whether to invest in marketing automation, book a free 15-minute AI audit. I'll tell you whether the platform will pay back on your specific revenue stack, or whether your money is better spent somewhere else for the next six months. No pitch, no follow-up sequence. Just the audit.

References

Stafford, Matthew. "2026 CRO Year in Review: What Worked, What Failed, What's Next." Build Grow Scale, 9 April 2026. https://buildgrowscale.com/cro-trends-2026-recap

Johari, Ramesh, Leo Pekelis, and David J. Walsh. "Peeking at A/B Tests: Why it matters, and what to do about it." KDD 2017. https://dl.acm.org/doi/abs/10.1145/3097983.3097992

Baymard Institute. "Checkout Usability Research." 2026 update. https://baymard.com/research/checkout-usability

Google + Deloitte. "Milliseconds Make Millions: How a Mobile Site Speed Improvement Can Improve a Brand's Revenue." 2020. https://www.thinkwithgoogle.com/_qs/documents/9757/Milliseconds_Make_Millions_report_hQYAbZJ.pdf

Unbounce. "Conversion Benchmark Report." Based on 41,000 landing pages, 464M pageviews, 57M conversions. https://unbounce.com/conversion-rate-optimization/

HubSpot. "Personalized Calls-to-Action Convert 202% Better." ~330,000 CTA dataset. https://blog.hubspot.com/marketing/personalized-call-to-action-converts-better-data

VectorCloud landing-page conversion data (29.57% / 25.81% / 19.3% / 7.95%): Unbounce A/B Test Centre dashboard, February 2018. Source screenshots in GoGoChimp client archive. Public-naming permission granted by Chris McCarron 2026-04-27.

ClickBoost.co.uk page-speed metrics (36 → 74 mobile PSI; TBT 1,120ms → 10ms; page weight 150MB → 2.5MB): ClickBoost Page Speed Optimisation Report, 14 March 2026. Public-naming permission granted by Chris McCarron 2026-04-27.

Freshers Festivals 46.82% landing-page conversion: GoGoChimp client engagement record. Public-naming permission granted by Chris McCarron 2026-04-27.